Helped, Heard, or Hugged? How to Support a Friend Through Their Child’s Gender Transition

Kathy (00:00)
Today’s topic has been on my mind for a while, and I’m really excited to bring this episode into the world. I think something that lots of women, again, I’m always focusing on midlife women, but this applies to more than just women. But I think a lot of people don’t plan on when they become parents, is that someday down the line, their child may come out and share that they are

questioning their gender identity or in gender transition. And it’s not something any parent ever planned on. There’s no training for it. There’s no handbook for it. Not that there’s a handbook for anything in parenting. But what happens in that moment is there are suddenly two journeys that happen at once. One is the child’s journey, but the other is the parent’s journey. And everything.

practical, emotional, psychological, all of it that comes along with the where do we go from here? It was important to me to have an episode focused on this because I do know so many people in my life who have faced this or are facing this. whether these are family members or friends or coworkers, people in my community, pe just people, clients, people that I know.

who are in it and struggle and are working hard to support their child while also taking care of themselves and doing the work that they feel they need to to show up in the best way. And I know as a friend or a family member or a coworker or a neighbor, I want to show up for them and do the best work I can to help them feel supported.

and their kids to feel supported and safe. So that’s what’s behind today’s episode. I’m bringing together a health and wellness coach with unique expertise in this area who spends a ton of time working with families in this space. And I’m really excited about the conversation you’re going to listen to today. Welcome to Surfing the Quicksand. I’m your host, Kathy Vines.

Kathy (02:27)
As I mentioned in the intro, this is a really important episode to me as I realized through life, especially in mid-age and the last many years, just how many friends and family members and coworkers and just people in my community I know who have faced this, something they never imagined would be on their bingo card for parenting as they are navigating their child’s.

questioning their gender identity, gender transition. And child could be minor age or grown adult and living out of the house. It’s showing up more and more as I’m talking to people in midlife around what’s on their mind and what’s causing stress. And I really wanted today’s episode to be about the parents’ journey. And maybe that’s not you. Maybe you’re not the parent in this scenario, but.

Maybe your sister or sister-in-law is. Maybe you have a cousin who’s going through it. Maybe it’s a coworker. Maybe it’s a friend or a neighbor. Maybe it’s your kid’s friend who’s going through it and their parents are struggling. So today’s episode is really around kind of listening and understanding and empathizing and being there and showing up and supporting our

Midlife women friends and family members who are going through something they didn’t plan and they need us in a way that none of us anticipated. I’m so excited today to introduce you to somebody who kind of does this work in a professional way and does it with compassion and care, and we’re gonna learn all about it. She is Wendy Williams, and she’s the owner of Weave Wellbeing.

She is a Mayo trained and board-certified health and wellness coach, and she really focuses on helping navigate through life transitions. And for a lot of people, that’s empty nesting or career transition or retirement or going through breakups like divorces. But very close to her heart has been working with parents, supporting them in this journey of another major transition.

As they’re supporting their kids in gender transition. She is certified in transformate transforming families in Minnesota as a facilitator for support groups for parents of kids of all ages going through this. And she’s going to bring with her today so much of her knowledge and expertise and training and firsthand experience of supporting parents in this really important step in life. Welcome, Wendy.

Wendy Williams (05:15)
Thank you, Kathy. I’m so happy to be here today.

Kathy (05:19)
I

you you are you focus on life transitions and you’ve made this your professional focus. And I know you come by that somewhat naturally going through many of your own life transitions on your way to becoming a health and wellness coach and founding Weave Wellbeing. Start by telling us about you and that journey.

Wendy Williams (05:43)
That’s so true. I have been through a lot of life transitions. For more than 30 years, I had my dream job as an orchestral flutist. I got to play, record, tour the world with the Minnesota Orchestra. And at the same time, I was a working mother with two kids, taking care of my own mother who was declining with dementia, and all the while managing rheumatoid arthritis. And in the same period in my life,

my marriage ended. And I also survived an extended labor work stoppage where I lost all my pay and benefits. And at that time, I was inspired to begin thinking about coaching work. What could be my next? So before starting that next chapter, I’d already firsthand experienced overlapping life transitions in a major way. And then at the beginning of the pandemic, I stepped away from orchestral life and made

this huge pivot. I had encouragement from my kids and I began studying and training extensively online and began to build my own coaching practice and business. And at the same time, I was, of course, began to ex navigate empty nest stages. I was happily repartnered. And then when my older child was 21, they came out to me and their father, I will say with a PowerPoint.

Letting us know that they were non-binary. And in one conversation, I feel like my life as I knew it changed. I needed to learn a whole new world with its own lexicon. And I really struggled to find resources. Friends of friends were willing to talk to me, and I read what I could find. I found some support in online communities. And in the process, I realized I could use a coach.

Kathy (07:38)
So you my gosh, I love how you you mentioned very specifically overlapping life transitions, right? And so much throughout throughout surfing the quicksand, what you know, almost every episode I’ve been able to talk to people, like there’s not just one plot line going on that’s disrupting life at this stage, or it’s not one thing we have to be good at. So you are facing your midlife was caring for an aging parent with dementia.

Your own personal health or rheumatoid arthritis, having to step away from a career you love, I’m assuming for a number of reasons, leaving a marriage, empty nesting, questioning what you were going to do for a career, and then dot dot dot, also now navigating a child coming out as non binary. Is that that is that

the list? and

Wendy Williams (08:28)
That covers covers the full spectrum.

Kathy (08:32)
like everybody else, and also a pandemic in there. Yeah.

Wendy Williams (08:34)
I’ll

also throw in menopause, which I know many of your less listeners are navigating,

Kathy (08:36)
Sha of course. Of course.

Wendy Williams (08:39)
their own health issues, and yes, all all of the above.

Kathy (08:44)
I I think we could do an entire separate episode just on how do you balance all those priorities of all those life transitions all at once, but we’re gonna focus on our our one today. Now I want to again, I said in the beginning, I want us I want this episode to be about, you know, whether you’re listening as a parent or more or more likely just numbers wise, you have you are someone who is a friend to, a family member to, a neighbor to, something else, someone else is going through this. So it’s very much important to me that this is around.

kind of how we show up and how we support and and how we be there. So some of this I’m thrilled that you are bringing your professional experience as a health and wellness and life transition coach where you’ve been working with people in the space, as well as you know, your magnanimous and generosity of sharing your own personal experience in there. how when you started your business, it doesn’t sound like working on parents

facing gender transition in their kids was was part of what you offered from the very beginning. Is that right?

Wendy Williams (09:48)
Exactly. It was a total shock and surprise to me. This was not something I was expecting to hear from my child. You know, when when you hear this news, you you think you know your child. You’ve fed them and groomed them and cared for them, what we’re wired to do, and then all of a sudden everything looks different.

Kathy (10:09)
And and I I know some parents and some people are gonna say, nope, that was not my experience. I knew it. Three, we were we were on a different journey. So you are you’re really speaking from the kind of not to use words for you, but like kind of blindsided. Like we didn’t see this coming. This was this did not come from a kind of a lived experience that we understood.

Wendy Williams (10:30)
And as you said, transitions can happen at toddlerhood, adolescence, young adulthood, later in life. So there is a wide range of experiences here in terms of the coming out experience for parents. Although, like you say, some they’re like, I knew this was coming. For some it’s a surprise. But I also want to add that parents are it’s an added layer of parenting on top of everyday parenting.

Perhaps parenting other kids. And a parent may already feel overwhelmed by their kids’ complexity. They may already have a diagnosis of ADHD or OCD or ASD or anxiety or depression. And here’s one whole new thing. And we’re in a brave new world. I like to think then in five, 10 years this will all feel easier, but we’re in times where threats against transgender people and their families are rising.

And we’re afraid for our kids.

Kathy (11:30)
For sure, safety, mental health, physical health, all of those things are top of mind. And I I’m so glad that you, you know, you bring that reality of right, you know, it’s not like everything was hunky-dory and all great and parenting is wonderful and roses, and then suddenly th here’s this, you know, this roadblock in the middle of the road. It’s often that there is something else that parents have been navigating, either with that kiddo or a different kiddo, right? There parenting is already overwhelming. You’re already

stressed about so many different things as a parent. So to have this again layered on top of what was already in the mix can can feel like just another thing. I I maybe Maybe it makes sense to frame about you you talked about language, right? Like terms and language things. So let’s let’s do a little groundwork around what are we talking about in terms of gender identity and gender transitions.

Wendy Williams (12:26)
I think it’s important to know as a friend or family member supporting someone going through a gender transition that that each stage looks different depending on the age group, but there are always social transitions. So the coming out stage at very varying degrees and forms, name and pronoun changes, clothing and appearance changes to adjust to, updating legal documents.

Even navigating which bathroom facilities are right for the moment. There’s physical transitions, and that’s a process that can take years. So maybe puberty blockers, hormone therapy, reproductive preservation, gender-affirming surgeries, voice therapies, cosmetic transitions, and then an enormous emotional journey. And as we’ve said, can be layered on top of other transitions and emotions.

And this journey can be intense. I find that when parents initially come to me for coaching or to a support group, they’re a puddle of tears. It is really overwhelming initially. They’re and processing this range of emotions really takes time. And it’s different for every parent, as you mentioned, and it also can be different for each parent and you know who are raising a child together. One parent may

jump in, okay, I’m great with this, let’s go. The other parent may be like, whoa, I’ve I’ve got to, we’ve got to slow down. I’ve got to process this. So the shock or surprise, as we discussed, can happen, but also confusion. I thought I knew my kid. Who is my child and who will they become becomes a central question. Overwhelmed with the enormity of the process, there can be inner turmoil and drama, denial, like, is this a stage? Is this just a phase?

there’s can be a huge sense of loss and grief who sometimes for our own dreams and visions for our kids, which may never have been accurate anyway, fear, shame pops up a lot, and all are normal and they deserve validation. And that’s where you come in as a friend. that it takes time and support and patience, kindness, self-compassion.

Kathy (14:51)
You know, a f a phrase used just a minute ago that was so powerful was, I don’t want to see if I get it right, you know, the dreams that weren’t realized that might never have been accurate in the first place. And and it seems like that is such a baseline for where things go from gee, I imagined a future that looked like this, and now I, as a parent, am wrestling with.

That future, regardless of whether or not it was going to come true, that image, that vision of that future, I have to mourn or grieve. Is that does that feel right? Is that the right language there?

Wendy Williams (15:37)
Absolutely, and let go of. And there’s also an identity issue mixed in with this grief. Like, what does this mean for me? I I thought I was the parent of a boy, or I thought I was the parent of a girl. And now what does it mean for me to be the parent of a transgender person in our society and in our family? so it’s it’s all of that. And

We have to r we do have to remember that our dreams are not necessarily our kids’ dreams. And we really have to respect our kids. And y someone told me once that kids are never too young to know how they feel. And not believing your kid can cause real harm. And the hardest path for people going through gender transitions are the people that are not heard and supported and understood and loved and that have to hide.

Kathy (16:34)
You know, I think you know, my own my own experience with this, I I I I realized some time ago, right, I I know more transgender kids than I know divorced people, right? Like it just it started realizing I I s you know, I I’m starting counting and I’m on I’m, you know, taking off my shoes and socks and I’m still counting. And what I’ve known for a long time is it’s very important to me. Family relationship as like, you know, the the

Parent aside, it’s very important to me that those parents know that their child is supported by me, right? And and and I I I try and show up in ways that they are clued in and like, we’re good. I’m here for the wherever this goes, I’m here for you. And s you know, I’m not a parent, right? So this is this is my only kind of room, is as as a I know those kids, I know those kids, I’ve known those kids since they were, you know, babies, whatever that is. And so

I

think that part of what I wanted out of this episode today is in this conversation today is like understanding, you know, when am I, what are the actions that I can be taking, or what are the actions I shouldn’t be taking when I learn from a friend or I learn from a family member that this is going on with their kids. Where do you where do you start with that?

Wendy Williams (18:03)
yes. one thing I think to know is that this family is in transition, not just the kid. the transitioning person has likely done deep internal exploration and they’re now the expert on themselves, not their parents. And so roles are shifting and everyone is trying to hold on to the ch child or transitioning persons

true essence throughout the process. And this transit transitioning person has needs to be consulted on who is told, what is told, when they’re told. So it may be that your friend or family member doesn’t have permission yet from their child to talk to you about this yet. So that may take time. And know also that not everything needs to be shared between family members and friends. So

Both for the parent seeking privacy and support. They’re not mutually exclusive. Parents have a need for their own support and they’re also respecting the privacy of their kid. So I think it’s all about being a good friend in the way that you normally would be. And I always love to remember the question, you know, do you want to be helped? Do you want to be heard or hugged right now? I always think that’s a good start, no matter what the situation is.

And just as if their kid was sick or struggling in other ways, we acknowledge, we offer support, we ask how we can help. And that may just mean listening. Well, not especially in this arena, not offering solutions or expertise. We’re all here to learn. And I think when we remember that, we do better. So we can always offer practical support. And we can also ask about our kid as a whole person.

What are their interests? What are their what is their life beyond transition? And understand just as we talked about this full range of emotions for every member of their family.

Kathy (20:10)
I

I I know I know from conversations with friends that that that that disclosure and that broader conversation with family, right? grandpa’s gonna have some strong opinions, uncle, you know, whatever whatever it is, that that can be the first real jungle to navigate as you’re trying to

Again, support your kid, but also know that you yourself might be struggling, saying, my gosh, the first picture that comes in my mind is that aunt who I know is not gonna is gonna have questions or is gonna be dismissive or is it go is going to be vocal. What is your experience or what is what have you been doing through your practice around listening to parents trying to take that first step in?

Connecting with family.

Wendy Williams (21:12)
usually takes a pause and a breath and a little time to get solid in yourself before any of those conversations happen. I felt like I was reeling for a while and I see this in parents a lot. It takes some time to get settled and more confident before those conversations happen. And in my case, like we were having a family celebration with to celebrate a grant beloved grandparent and

And I talked to my kid and I said, what do you think? Do you want to talk to them? Do you want me to talk to them? Because depending on how you choose to express your self and your gender identity in this setting, there there’s going to be questions. And so what are you comfortable with? And so we had that conversation before we had the the the the larger group.

gathering. And so that was really helpful. I also think it’s easy to get ahead of ourselves when we’re going through something like this. We can jump way ahead, especially since it’s going to going to be a long timeline. So staying present, staying present with your friend, taking it one step at a time with them can be really helpful.

Kathy (22:32)
That that concept of gosh, it’s the the jumping ahead. We can jump ahead. And whether kids jumping ahead, parents gonna jump ahead, friends are jumping, whatever that is, that idea of saying, this is on my mind. Should we talk about this? And you’re like, No, no, no, we’re not there yet. I’m not ready. I’m still dealing with you know, how are they dressing for school tomorrow? Not what are we doing about Thanksgiving in three months? Right. And and and understanding that

what I’m hearing is what they may be facing is just immediate next steps and immediate decisions. And I know for me, I’m a I’m a long term planner. Like, let’s let’s get your ducks in a row for that next big scary thing that’s coming up. How can I help? And they’re like, listen, I not ready. Thank you. Not ready. and so I think that’s that’s a good beat for me to always, you know, maybe

check it check the calendar.

Wendy Williams (23:25)
And at the same time, I think it’s

also important not to ask about bodies or medical choices or decisions or details unless it until

Kathy (23:31)
Yeah.

Wendy Williams (23:34)
or unless they’re shared. I think a good filter is do I need this information to do my job as a good friend? And yeah, and also being aware that your friend may have a heightened sense of vigilance or awareness due to their concerns about safety, those come up.

right away. yeah. And then there’s other practical things that I think you can ask, which is what what are what about names or pronouns? What what is what does your child prefer? What are you using in your family now? And then you can practice that. You can practice with a friend, you can practice talking to a photo, and you’re going to make mistakes, we all do. And then we just calmly correct ourselves. It’s all about the intent.

And the effort, which is about respect. And so if we’re making that effort to join our friend or family member in their maybe a brand new name that’s really hard to swallow initially or hard doesn’t feel familiar, but you can walk that path with your friend. And when in doubt, you can use they until you know better or if you’re struggling. but it is part of it’s a I believe it’s a responsibility to be really making an effort in this.

particular arena.

Kathy (24:56)
I love that you kinda bring up that no one’s gonna get it right and nobody’s gonna get it perfect and we are gonna slip up. We’ve known often known somebody for many, many years under one name. We just think of them in one pronoun set. So the idea that we might just be chatting, we we slip into that so naturally. Whereas like, I have to rem ec this is the new name. This is the let’s let’s do it as a they, let’s

And I I think that’s an interesting thing, you know. Well, I can think of one kiddo in our lives where we did go with they because I’m like, I don’t, I don’t actually know. sometimes I’m hearing she and sometimes I’m hearing they, and I don’t really know. So I’m just gonna they feel safe and respectful. So I’m gonna try that until somebody corrects me. But the

Wendy Williams (25:45)
Exactly.

Kathy (25:46)
idea that I’m going to try as often as I can to get it right, knowing there are times when I won’t, is part of just like,

I I gotta you know, give myself and give everybody in the in the mix some grace as we’re working on it.

I’m

thinking about how I reached out to some friends. I was getting together with friends. I hadn’t seen them in a long time, and I hadn’t seen their kids in a long, long time. And before just texting in advance, and I just said, Hey, really excited to see the kids. Anything I should know about pronouns or or names or anything else going on with them? And my friend wrote back and said, my gosh. no, they’re, you know, as you remembered, but

Really nice and thoughtful of you to think to even ask about that because it’s for sure going on with a lot of their friends that we’re learning new pronouns and we’re learning new names with them. And so I it’s one of those things that I’m just trying to work on my own, like challenging my own bias and not making assumptions, going into things as often as possible, and trying to, you know, leave the door open for what might be a difficult conversation, right? I have

I have another friend who I’ve known their kid under one name. And I I learned through another path that that kid’s using a different name now. And but the mom that I’m close with had was not using the new name. And I’m like, all right, I’m just gonna not gonna ask. I’m gonna leave space for how that goes. And eventually she said, by the way, my kid’s going by this name now. And I said, that’s great.

I’m noted, right? I’ve updated my Christmas card list, right? So it was, you know, giving time and giving space for when people feel safe or want to share, but me also feeling like I wanna make sure somebody knows that this is a comfortable space. They can raise a difficult conversation, even if to just like break the ice. Not to have a big in-depth conversation about families and and emotions and trauma, but just like

I just want to break the ice to let you know that this is going.

Wendy Williams (27:54)
That’s a beautiful example, Kathy. You are an exemplary friend to create that space and openness to ride that journey with your with your friend.

Kathy (28:05)
You know, I I wanna I wanna go back to you had said when you’re working with people, somebody coming into your either your coaching practice or a support circle, that they’re a puddle of tears. I think something you said something like that. Tell me about when people are coming to you for support, what do you believe, what do you understand is what they’re looking for in working with a coach at that time?

Wendy Williams (28:33)
Yeah, and people show up for support at different stages. it may be for what they’re going through in the moment or what may be ahead. And but people do need understanding. It’s we always need to know that we’re not alone on a journey. And we need education and resources. We’re very lucky here in Minnesota. We have Transforming Families Minnesota, which is a super active group with support groups for

parents of all ages. And this group is actually supporting families who are moving to Minnesota as a sanctuary space. so it’s it’s very vibrant and supportive group, but not everyone has that. So they might reach out at any stage stage of the journey, and but they’ve probably been struggling alone and they may have been struggling, as I mentioned before, in conflict with another parent at going moving at different paces.

but they really want their feelings normalized and they want somebody to walk alongside them as questions come up, as changes come up, as they learn new things about their kid, as it evolves over the short term and the long term.

Kathy (29:49)
I I appreciate that you brought up again that notion that s spouses or two parents if they’re not together anymore, but you know, that they may not be on the same page. It may not they may not be going in different directions, but they may be at different paces. and I’m I’m imagining again thinking about a role as a friend or as a family member, as a neighbor, right? That that wanting to support.

report or acknowledge or validate that that being another one of those layers in all of this for the parent probably feels critical.

Wendy Williams (30:30)
Absolutely. And it may be bigger than just the the parent, the co-parents, as as I like to call it. It may be the family, there’s a lot of conflict and difference. There may be religious and cultural beliefs that are coming into it. There’s resistance and you know extended family dynamics, and even maybe a school community or neighborhood community where there’s a range of acceptance and beliefs and understandings. So

your friend is operating in their own little sphere of ideas and values and principles and there’s going to be a range of responses that they’re managing internally.

Kathy (31:15)
Yeah, and I’m imagining if that parent also has other kids and a sibling is struggling, they are wearing very different parenting hats at that point in time, right? It’s the how am I supporting, showing up, evolving, etc., for one child while also supporting another child who’s struggling to understand, struggling to relate, confused whatever that else, whatever that else is that, you know, they are, they are not, again, just

On a single ticket parent journey here on one ride at a time.

Wendy Williams (31:50)
Yes, and that other child or children may they want they want and deserve the full support of their parent and all of a sudden their parent is stretched or distracted or overwhelmed. So it’s a it’s a balancing act within a family.

Kathy (32:04)
Again, it’s these layers, these layers of life transition. I I I wanna sh shift just a little bit because I I do wanna talk about life transition life transition because I know this is not your only area of expertise. I if I remember correctly, this came out of a like you shared a blog post about your journey and this kind of emerged as wow, people want this too. But you were already doing

And

still do a lot of work in other areas. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Wendy Williams (32:37)
Yeah, yes. it definitely there are overlaps and I’ve been thinking about the heroes journey a lot. per s I think particularly because the Odyssey has been everywhere in our media this summer with the movie and people, everybody’s reading it and thinking about these ancient myths, tales, folk folklore that we can actually really learn from. And so I think the hero’s journey I can be applied to many of our transitions in life, but it can

I think particularly be applied to a gender transition. So if you think of the child as the protagonist, our hero, if you will, they’re the center of the story and they’re exploring their identity. And as they shift and leave an older identity behind, we begin to really learn who our child is and their most authentic self through this journey, this quest, if you will. They begin to find their true gender expression.

And we learn who our allies are as we move forward. And that’s where we come in as friends and people of support. We’re allies to walk along in this journey. And then families face numerous challenges as we’ve talked about through this process. But at the end of the journey, coming into a new gender expression, getting comfort, everyone gets more comfortable. There’s less uncertainty, less discomfort with all of the change.

Then I think at the end there’s a real opportunity for deeper connection within a family. There’s an opportunity for growth and of for everyone in the family system and the community around it of friends and neighbors and more extended family members, and kind of a wholeness or wellness at the end of this hero’s journey.

Kathy (34:28)
I love that. It’s I and it is, I think it is really important to remember kind of the the person going through it is the hero in the journey. And that but that doesn’t mean that all the supporting characters around them don’t have their own their own drama. Certainly in the movie The Odyssey and the Story That Odyssey, they all have their own drama. And we’re we’re in that. you know, I think about we’ve talked about things like you know, readying for broader conversations in the family or dealing with what am I facing, maybe a

church or in the community or schools and we got safety and things. But also there are the small moments and that small identity that are that feel like again kind of unanticipated tripping up. And you know a story that comes to mind for me is I have a friend who’s ch just they have they have one child. And so when that child was born, they had

the Christmas stockings made for the family, right? And each one has the, you know, the lifelong stocking. And my friend was like, I need to get a new stocking, right? And this was, you know, you’re thinking about so many big things like, what are we doing about hormones and puberty blockers and big changes and bullying in school? And they’re like, the thing that tripped me up was realizing I need a new Christmas stocking. And these small moments of of like,

Again, sha not shattering, but but challenging that identity of what we’re shedding as that new layer of that hero’s journey comes about.

Wendy Williams (36:05)
Think that’s a beautiful metaphor for the challenges. And it may be that the transitioning person doesn’t want photos around the house of themselves in a different gender expression or with a different name, like on a stocking. This these are really common specific issues that come up for people. And the the process of like a name change in itself is enormous from

Everything from school records to health records to passports to birth certificates. I mean it’s it’s a whole nother arena that the transitioning family, per per parent in particular, is leading leading the charge and it’s a lot.

Kathy (36:52)
You know, I was just thinking about that. On top of all the other kind of mental and emotional load that a parent typically mother will bear, this is a huge one. and even if your child is out of the house or grown, they’re probably needs some help navigating some of that or thinking through how to do that. Although I imagine you can just kind of put in Chat GPT hey, this is what I’m going through. What do I need to do? But

For a parent of a of a minor child or a child who’s appro getting ready to go to college, right? And that weird transition between 17 and 18 years old and legal adult and all sorts of forms Yet another layer to this is the mental and emotional burden that or the mental and emotional low that comes with this work.

Wendy Williams (37:44)
Absolutely.

I’ll I’ll also add that we know that women take to t tend to take on the huge proportion of mental loads in family systems and in and so yes, it’s often the mother leading the charge, not always, and I want to be respectful of that. But I I also what’s coming to mind too is I’m four almost five years into this journey, but when I go to support groups and I see parents who are five to ten,

even 15 years into the journey, I see such a beautiful evolution. I see a calm, an understanding, a settling. All of this work, the the paperwork, the emotional work, the physical work, they’re beyond that. And their children are usually thriving and happy and content in their relationships and in their families. It’s taken

Of it’s been a huge long journey. If you think of Odysseus, his journey was 20 years. maybe it may not be that long, but I also just it’s important to me to point out that I do see such confidence and owning of their roles. I see these parents, they’ve become experts of what their journey was and they help other parents. And that to me is such a a beautiful thing to see.

And it really gives parents hopes, hope to hear that yes, their journey is difficult, what they’re going through is normal, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Kathy (39:22)
I and obviously that is some of your life’s work here too, both professionally and personally, is helping helping others with your own hindsight and your own training, right? It’s it’s not like you just said, I went through this and now I can teach others, right? You are you are rooted very much in being a certified well trained coach and and helping people through difficult challenges. And so the fact that you’re bringing your own personal experience to bear only kind of

expands credibility and empathy.

Wendy Williams (39:53)
Although in coaching, we’re never the expert of our client. The client is always the expert. And so people go through this very differently, in their own personal ways, based on their values and life experience, their sense of timing. You know, some of us are quick processors and some of us take our time. And so it’s I think in coaching, but also in our our life friendships, really honoring.

the pace and the depth of the journey that you’re walking alongside.

Kathy (40:29)
I I’m thinking too what you said earlier about the phrase of do you want to be helped, heard, or hugged? Is that the phrase, you

Wendy Williams (40:36)
Yes.

Kathy (40:37)
know, I that as you know, as a friend in that journey. you know, and and even as a coach, right? Are you gonna be helped herbed or or you know, over Zoom hugged if you know, if it’s if you’re a virtual coach, right? I think sometimes that’s recognizing, okay, what do they need from

me in this support role right now that gets them there. Because you’re right. It’s as a coach, they’ve y you’re not the one with the answers, they are. And it’s our job as coaches to help bring things out and people

Wendy Williams (41:08)
And it’s our job to be regulated because our client, our friend, our family member may be very dysregulated in the moment. But if we can breathe and we can stay open and we can listen and respond rather than react, if we can be present, then we can create space for healing and comfort to grow.

Kathy (41:34)
Love that. I want to I want to make sure we talk a little bit about resources because you mentioned early on that when you started going through this, you were doing a lot of reading and doing a lot of exploring, and friends were willing to talk to you. But you didn’t have a lot of resources very much at your fingertips. You spoke about the the tremendous work that’s being done in Minnesota to support people. But when you think about resources for people, what do you

What are some that you provide to people or you want to make sure they know and they and that you could share?

Wendy Williams (42:08)
Well, there are some beautiful books out there. One that pops to mind at the moment is a book, and I love the title, perhaps even more than the book, but it’s It’s About You Too, which is I think a lovely reminder to a parent that yes, this is about your kid, but you also are on this journey and it’s about you too. So there are some wonderful books. I’m sure you can help me by listing them. There’s some podcasts that are out there.

there’s a writer named Just Plain Beth who has a website who documents her journey with transgender children and acknowledges the parent experience week after week after week in her newsletters. I really appreciate her. but I will also add that when I first started reading, I felt like the message I was getting was get on board and get on board fast.

And I think there is a certain amount of pressure there. And I think that’s true, but it’s it’s incomplete. And the reason for that is that suicide rates for transgender people are significantly higher than the general population. And so the priority does have to be support and coming on board with your kid. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t continue your own own journey, your own work at the same time. So

I I definitely wanted to throw that out there that there that is a message. and it’s a both and yes, learn, educate yourself, get support, do your work, and support your child, be as as supporting and loving and compassionate as you can be for them in the moment, because their their health and wellness and their indeed their safety may be at risk.

Kathy (44:00)
Yeah, we don’t have the luxury of just being able to p hit pause and say, wait for me to be f to feel ready to support you in order for that to happen. We just that’s not that’s not we’re at.

Wendy Williams (44:11)
Exactly. Yeah.

Kathy (44:14)
Wendy, I’ve loved this conversation. Thank you so much. I wanna transition to the quicksand three and then we’ll come back and talk about you and how people can learn more about you and the work that you do or some of the any other resources that have slipped your mind that you wanna share.

let’s start with a quick sand three. So the first is what is a tip or technique that you use when you’ve been procrastinating or avoiding something and you wanna get back activated on it?

Wendy Williams (44:43)
I love this question. I think we all deal with it throughout our lives. And I like the idea of what I call chunking, which is breaking large tasks into smaller, more manageable ones. People use different language. But I used this through four decades of practicing the flute. And when I looked ahead at my day and I had two or three hours of individual practice on top of maybe a rehearsal, and it felt honestly overwhelming. So

If I break broke it up into smaller, more manageable chunks, no more of more than 20 minutes at a time, I could get started. And I learned that for the trick for me was getting started early in the day. The longer I pushed off this chunk of practicing, the heavier and more difficult it felt to approach. So in my professional flute days, I tried to get the flute on my face as early as possible in the day, even for five minutes, just to get warmed up.

And then to come back for five or ten minutes of scales and coming back then for another closer to 20-minute chunk, then my day progressed more easily into more difficult and longer sessions. So that worked well for me. And I don’t have to practice the flute anymore, but that habit still shapes me and it shapes how I start tasks that I’m avoiding. So with my clients, I often recommend setting a timer, even for five minutes. I’m gonna do just five minutes of this.

project. I’m gonna do five minutes of cleaning a closet. And then often what we find is that that’s the breakthrough we need. Well, I guess I could do ten. Or I guess I could come back and do five and then ten. So that that’s been helpful to me and my clients.

Kathy (46:23)
I love that the work that you did in one world just you were able to apply it to another and it’s still so helpful. Second question is if time and money and skills and period in history, none of those were factors, what would be a job or career you might have liked to have tried?

Wendy Williams (46:40)
Honestly, I’ve already had my dream job. so if I have to imagine a next fantasy career, I would love to be able to speak more languages. I only speak one well. And I’d like to be a translator in my fantasy job. I just finished reading Ann Patchett’s novel, Bel Canto and there’s a character named Jen who’s the translator in the novel. And Jen is translating between many languages, many cultures, and

making connections with between Jen and other characters, but also between other characters. And that reminded me of my love of music making, where in the orchestra world, and my succeed in the from the orchestra, I was connecting and communicating through the language of music, which I love.

Kathy (47:31)
Beautiful. Finally, when life gets chaotic, how do you recharge or hit the reset button?

Wendy Williams (47:41)
I think because of my many years of playing the flute, I tend to rely on breathing exercises and I have a whole assortment of patterns that I use for different things. And beyond that, I’ll I admit I love streaming a good T V show and I feel like nothing distracts me or relaxes me more. So sometimes that’s exactly what I need.

Kathy (48:03)
I I’m a binge watcher for sure. I I keep a list of all the shows I want to watch and when I need to escape, I go to that list. Good. Wendy, thank you so much and really thoughtful answers. I appreciate that. Now let’s talk about you. If people want to learn more about you, the different kinds of work that you do, different ways to just kind of get in your orbit a little bit more, how can they do that?

Wendy Williams (48:25)
Thank you. So my website is weavewellbeing.com and there’s lots of information on there how to follow my journal posts, how to work with me in small groups, couples, individuals. And I also offer a collage art workshops, which I love to do in person or even on Zoom. I find that getting people together to cut and paste and put together beauty and color and patterns and words, it’s very insightful.

for usually everyone involved, plus it’s just fun to play together again.

Kathy (48:59)
That’s super fun. Thank you. Wendy, thank you again for your bringing your expertise and your personal passion around this topic from your own walk and live experience. And I’m and and I’m appreciative of how much of your personal story and I know with permission your kiddo’s personal story you’ve shared and we are all benefiting from it. Thank you.

Wendy Williams (49:21)
Thank you so much for the conversation.

Kathy (49:24)
That was that was a lot, right? That was so many different angles of such an important story. And I think we all know we could probably spend another eight hours on eight other angles when it comes to this important topic. I’m so grateful for Wendy for sharing so much of even her own personal perspective and and vulnerability around this story for her, while also so clearly.

fueled and dedicated to helping other parents as they are navigating similar news that she walked into four or five years ago. No two no two kids’ journey is the same and no two parents’ journey is the same. And I don’t mean to kind of smooth that over, but maybe there’s something going on in your life or again, your family or your friends or your neighborhood that this touched for you and had you thinking a little bit differently about.

Maybe you know somebody that you want to share this episode with. men or women, right? We’re not surfing the quicksand is really for midlife women, but gosh, so many episodes really go beyond this, don’t they? And so if this is an episode that spoke to you or you think it’ll speak to somebody else, I really appreciate you sharing this along. And, you know, I never really ask, but hey, if you could like and subscribe and do all the things that you’re supposed to do with podcasts when something is really speaking to you, I hope you do that too.

Thanks so much for being here and for having an open mind and an open heart when you’re dealing with this in life.