It’s Finally My Turn: How an Empty-Nest Hobby Opened a Whole New Chapter

Kathy (00:00)
I love stories that have started to talk about things that I never thought I would do in my life. And then suddenly in my 50s or my 40s, I realized, huh? I never thought about this, but I’m good at it and I’m enjoying it. And let’s see where it goes from here. Today I’m talking with somebody who found a new hobby when she was kind of thinking about what was coming with empty nesting. And it turned into a whole, whole new world for her.

Kathy (00:29)
Personally and professionally. And this is a fun story because I think for me personally, every kind of page that turns in her story feels really gripping to me and really interesting. And I was I was hooked from the first time I met her. So I hope you enjoy my talk today just as much as I did. Welcome to Surfing the Quicksand. I’m your host, Kathy Vines

Kathy (01:03)
Something that’s been on the minds of a lot of midlife women I know, especially those people who have kids are getting older and they’re getting ready to leave the nest, is what am I going to do with my time once they’re gone? And I’m gonna have a few episodes this season talking to people who have kind of been doing some exploring with empty nesting. And my guest today is a really fascinating story because her empty nesting.

Kathy (01:30)
turned into a new hobby. And that hobby led to some very interesting directions that actually created a whole new career for her and recast who she is professionally. She is someone who is has a background in marketing, so she’s still using that expertise. And we’re gonna talk about that. But really what it lit up for her is she has become a successful historical fiction author of multiple books.

Kathy (01:59)
based on these discoveries that she found with her new hobby of genealogy. Welcome Janis Daly.

Janis Robinson Daly (02:07)
Thank you so much, Kathy. It’s great to be here with you today.

Kathy (02:11)
I I am excited because I know you do lots of really interesting things that maybe were not on your horizon at all when you started midlife and when you were in kind of early 50s and things started to shift. So I want you to, as a storyteller, to walk us through a little bit of so how have these stops kind of evolved over the last many years for you that have gotten you to who you are today?

Janis Robinson Daly (02:38)
Yeah, great. Thank you so much. Well, I guess I’m going back 10 years when I was working full time, two sons, but it was the pivotal moment that the last one was getting ready to graduate college. So new life stage for all of us in the family on the horizon. and you know, just because the the kids are off at college doesn’t mean you’re not still involved in their lives, right?

Janis Robinson Daly (03:08)
You’re still a very active parent. And maybe even a little bit more so for us because both of my sons were college athletes. So we spent a lot of time still going to those games, traveling, spending, you know, 10 weekends in the fall going from Massachusetts to Pennsylvania to watch football, which I loved every single minute and made some fabulous friends and learned some really fun traditions associated with tailgating.

Janis Robinson Daly (03:36)
Which is a whole nother story. But yeah.

Kathy (03:39)
That’s its own that’s its own adventure. I love it.

Janis Robinson Daly (03:41)
it was. It was. I think that’s where the extra 10 pounds came that I’ve never been able to get rid of.

Kathy (03:46)
Ha ha.

Janis Robinson Daly (03:47)
So, but but you know, I I was kind of pausing to say, okay, well, I’m a doer. I’m an active person. I always have to be busy, you know, even beyond working full time. And I’m like, what are we gonna do next year when we’re not going to football games? And

Janis Robinson Daly (04:05)
you know, I I started to think of like, well, well, you know, what’s what’s in it for me? It’s finally my time. It’s finally my turn. You know, after twenty-five years of being a a working mom with all those demands, maybe I’ll finally have some time to to look into what I want to do. And so I had always been intrigued with history and always been intrigued with genealogy.

Janis Robinson Daly (04:34)
I do have some very interesting ancestral lines that I knew about on my mom’s side. I knew my grandmother on my mom’s side, had a wonderful relationship with her. So knew her stories of family coming from Scotland to Nova Scotia to Boston and all that. and I knew a lot about my dad’s Robinson line, going all the way back to the Mayflower. So a lot of history there.

Janis Robinson Daly (05:04)
The missing link was trying to learn about my grandmother Robinson. So she had passed before I was born. and at this point, my my dad had already passed, my mom had passed. so I didn’t have anyone to go to to ask those questions. Like, how did she grow up in Philadelphia, which I knew, but how did she get to Boston where she met my grandfather?

Janis Robinson Daly (05:32)
And got married at the ripe old age of 32 in 1912. She was an old maid.

Kathy (05:37)
yeah. yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (05:39)
and and and then how did her life unfold that her husband left her with two children under the age of five? but she would not divorce him until the the two boys were through college. So there was a lot of interesting questions there. So I decided, all right.

Janis Robinson Daly (06:02)
Get through this graduation, and then I’m going to start some research onto that line of my family. And Billy didn’t have a lot to go on, you know. All I knew was, you know, her name, and then she grew up in Philadelphia. Quick Google search, turned up nothing. You know, she wasn’t employed outside the home. She obviously she hadn’t gone to college, she did not

Janis Robinson Daly (06:30)
be an active participant in any, you know, women’s groups or anything. so I’m finding nothing. I find, you know, where she was buried. Okay, I already knew that in Newton, Massachusetts. but nothing. I did ask my oldest brother, who is 16 years older than me. So he was about 10 when she died. And, you know, not for nothing. And I always throw him under the bus because his response was, I don’t know. She was an old lady. So kind of.

Janis Robinson Daly (07:00)
No help there. Yeah, yeah. So

Kathy (07:01)
What do we expect from a ten year old boy, right? Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (07:04)
I so I I started then, okay, well, I knew her mother’s name and maiden name. So I, you know, I stepped back another generation. Really didn’t find much out about what now would be my great-grandparents. went back one more step, and I did know the family name from Philadelphia was Peirce

Janis Robinson Daly (07:27)
And it had an unusual spelling of P-E-I-R-C-E. Actually loved that name so much that my oldest son is James Peirce. And he’s actually gone by Peirce, J. Peirce, his entire life. So, so then I’m searching Peirce in Philadelphia, you know, connected to the great-grandmother’s name, and I hit the mother load. When I found

Janis Robinson Daly (07:56)
Got a portrait of him here. William Shannon

Kathy (08:00)
wow.

Janis Robinson Daly (08:01)
Peirce.

Kathy (08:02)
William Shannon Peirce. So if you’re if you’re listening, you’re holding up a beautiful oval frame of you know, it just looks like a stately gentleman with a bow tie, looks very confident.

Janis Robinson Daly (08:13)
Yes.

Kathy (08:14)
and and yeah, looks like it’s, you know, from the nine n probably eighteen hundreds this this portrait. Yeah. Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (08:19)
Absolutely, 1800s. so

Janis Robinson Daly (08:21)
I I I found that photo or portrait that had been commissioned for the 100th anniversary of the United States, the signing of the declaration in Philadelphia, 1876, where they commissioned portraits of famous Phil Philadelphians. And so he popped up.

Janis Robinson Daly (08:46)
Primarily based on his work as a lawyer and judge in Philadelphia, and his work in the abolitionist movement, defending runaway slaves in the 1850s and winning their freedom. So already I am history nerd, alert, you know, I was always intrigued with the Civil War era, and I’m thinking, I had an ancestor who was active.

Janis Robinson Daly (09:14)
In the abolitionist movement, securing the freedom of black Americans. So that was very cool. And so I’m now finding material about him online and doing a little bit more digging. And there was one excerpt about him written up in Famous Americans.net, again, primarily about his abolitionist work and lawyer and judge work. And the very last line.

Janis Robinson Daly (09:44)
read he was a founder of the women’s medical college of Pennsylvania.

Janis Robinson Daly (09:52)
And I was like, women’s medical colleges? I had never heard that there was such a thing. I knew there were women’s colleges. I attended one myself. but never knew that there were women’s medical colleges. And again, I just got absorbed into this idea, into this history that I had never heard about. And I just dove into that rabbit hole and gone.

Janis Robinson Daly (10:20)
I was gone down those tunnels, researching, wanting to learn everything I could about that medical college and my ancestors’ connection to it. And the more I learned about it forming in 1850, staying open until 1970, 120 years of women’s Yeah, yeah.

Kathy (10:40)
wow. So in in our lifetime. Yeah. Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (10:44)
and then learned about the students.

Janis Robinson Daly (10:48)
And the graduates and what these women went on to do with an M.D. attached to their name at a time when less than five percent of all of our doctors were women. Amazing. And I just stopped there and said, Yeah.

Kathy (11:00)
Now, I wanna ask you, I want

Kathy (11:02)
to ask you. So I I, you know, I’ve fooled around with genealogy myself. I I enjoy it. And when it comes to time I spend on it, if I sit down in front of like Ancestry.com or like

Janis Robinson Daly (11:13)
Right.

Kathy (11:14)
click in or like I could lose hours doing this work. So this is I wanna start with that, right? So this is it’s starting to be a empty nest, no more football season, what am

Janis Robinson Daly (11:25)
yeah.

Kathy (11:26)
I doing? Hobby. How much of your life is a story?

Kathy (11:30)
starting to take because it sounds like you are finding amazing gems.

Janis Robinson Daly (11:33)
this is all I was doing. I I was just, you know, filling in those tree branches with the the judge had 10 children, seven of survived, eight of them seven of them survived. mostly daughters. He had one son. So then I’m immediately thinking, well, did any of the daughters go to the medical college? Right? Couldn’t find any evidence of that. So then I am still thinking of, wow.

Janis Robinson Daly (12:04)
He was committed to believing in the rights of others, from the black Americans to women and their right to have an education. So yeah, I was I was definitely every spare moment after work was was going into that. So rather than picking up a pickleball racket and getting active in my free time, I’m seated in the chair and letting those 10 pounds spread a little bit more.

Kathy (12:33)
No, I think it’s great. And obviously it was a it was an idea you’d been thinking about for a long time. And not necessarily I’m gonna learn, but I’ve always been curious. And letting your curiosity lead where you might spend your your time, money, and energy, I think is is such a gift when you when you know that there’s something that’s been sticking with you for a long time of like, I, you know, I’ve always wanted to know more. And then you were.

Kathy (12:59)
step after step kind of rewarded with another gem of like, ooh, let’s keep going. Ooh, let’s keep going. Yeah. Good.

Janis Robinson Daly (13:03)
Right. Yes. Exactly. It those

Janis Robinson Daly (13:06)
gems. They they were coming fast and furious. And and that’s a actually a I might have to use that metaphor of Kathy, because I consider the women that I discovered to be those gems. And their stories were shining bright in front of me and

Janis Robinson Daly (13:28)
thinking they need to be polished and they need to be put on display.

Kathy (13:34)
So this is this is like the true destination of where all this takes you. As much as you learn about this legendary great great grandfather, maybe three greats, I’m not sure, to be saying,

Janis Robinson Daly (13:43)
Great Great Yeah. Two greats Yeah.

Kathy (13:45)
like, but now I’m looking at this women’s medical college. I’m looking

Janis Robinson Daly (13:50)
Mm.

Kathy (13:51)
at this thing that he was part of founding. And I’m I’m lit up thinking about this college and what it meant and who it produced and what happened to those people.

Janis Robinson Daly (14:02)
Exactly, exactly. And you know, again, having graduated from a women’s college, Wheaton College in Massachusetts at the time was still all women, I knew the type of student and the type of faculty that came together and how supportive the community is. So I really felt like these women need to be celebrated, they need to be honored. I

Janis Robinson Daly (14:31)
Do read a lot. That has always been a hobby of mine, and I’ve always enjoyed historical fiction. I had never read anything about early women doctors. You know, okay, yes, did I watch Dr. Quinn on TV? Yes. But that wasn’t, you know, really. Although fun fact, someone pointed out to me later. doc in the very first episode, they say Dr. Quinn graduated from the women’s medical college in Pennsylvania.

Kathy (14:58)
That is amazing.

Kathy (15:00)
That’s amazing. Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (15:00)
Like we watch that episode on you know

Janis Robinson Daly (15:02)
Netflix or something. But so I, you know, just so taken with their stories and I said, they do need to be honored. And, you know, as a kind of afterthought, well, it’s also a way for me to honor my great great grandfather and the work that he did with the school. So if I I just sat down and I said, All right, I’m gonna write a book.

Janis Robinson Daly (15:27)
Because what better way to get this story out there? And I’m gonna use historical fiction because I think it will reach more readers. And that was my goal. Is do I want to sell books? Of course. But I want readers to learn and be inspired by these women. And so I just got started, and three years later, we launched the unlocked path.

Janis Robinson Daly (15:55)
Which was my my first book, which takes my main character into the women’s medical college through the four year program into her early residency and developed a a composite character of Eliza Edwards.

Kathy (16:10)
So this is not a not just the story of a graduate, but a story of an incoming student

Janis Robinson Daly (16:17)
Right.

Kathy (16:17)
and her student experience, then moving on. Now, first I wanna ask, before this time in your life, had writing a book, writing a novel been something you would aspire to do?

Janis Robinson Daly (16:28)
Never,

Kathy (16:28)
No.

Janis Robinson Daly (16:29)
never, ever, ever. I was a psychology major, so interested in in human life and behavior and motivations and and needs and wants and all that on the Maslow hierarchy. But I had never thought of writing a book. No. No. I I I enjoyed my English classes in in college, you know, those required classes at a liberal arts school.

Janis Robinson Daly (16:57)
And I did well, but no, never ever gave it a thought.

Kathy (17:03)
So you are sitting down and you are coming up with this composite based on, I’m assuming you’re researching the women right now. So now you’ve

Janis Robinson Daly (17:11)
Right.

Kathy (17:12)
kind of left the Peirce family, you’ve moved on to the students of this college. How did what did that research look like for you?

Janis Robinson Daly (17:20)
so again started with online and then I knew if I really wanted to dive in and I wanted to tackle this project and and do justice to the story, I needed to go to the source. And I am so fortunate that all the archival material from the Women’s Medical College is now housed at Drexel University in Philadelphia.

Janis Robinson Daly (17:47)
so the the college again operated until 1970. It then started to admit a few men, changed their name to medical college, had a brief association with Hahnemann, which is more of a holistic medicine type program in Philadelphia, and and then eventually merged with Drexel. so Drexel acquired all the archival material, and I was so fortunate to go

Janis Robinson Daly (18:15)
and spend a full day in their basement office just completely surrounded with photographs and and correspondence and grade reports and financial reports and alumni newsletters and all. you know, the printed form, you know, from the eighteen hundreds and early early nineteen hundreds and i it was just amazing, amazing.

Kathy (18:40)
Ha

Kathy (18:40)
now, my assumption is that you had reached out in advance and said, Hey, this is who I am, this is what I’m doing, what do you got? Can I come? How did they respond to your inquiry? What did they think of it?

Janis Robinson Daly (18:52)
They were over the moon. They were they were so happy that someone wanted to use the material. and again and share the stories. There had been a nonfiction book written about the college, and that was a great resource for me as well. so Dr. Steven Peitzman wrote that, and I got a chance to meet him actually, and and he was lovely, and I

Janis Robinson Daly (19:17)
you know, gave him full kudos and attributions in my acknowledgments. But but I knew I wanted to do historical fiction to reach more readers than that.

Kathy (19:28)
Well how

Kathy (19:28)
long is this research phase for you? You’ve gone from I think I need to do this to ooh, if I’m gonna do this, I gotta I gotta get as much source material as possible and I’m gonna I’m gonna read this guy’s book, I’m gonna go to the college, I’m gonna do all these things. What is what’s this timeline like for you in this research mode?

Janis Robinson Daly (19:46)
Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (19:47)
So once I s decided I’m I’m gonna write the book, I was doing two things on a parallel path. First was the research, which included going down to Philadelphia, but also taking a course on creative writing. So I’m I’m doing both at the same because

Janis Robinson Daly (20:13)
I knew how to write a business strategy plan. I knew how to write, you know, a communications plan for a for a financial institution. I did not know how to creatively write a novel. So I I took an online class, went to a couple of writers’ retreats within that time period as well. so that was a about a year of researching what to write.

Janis Robinson Daly (20:43)
but also how to write. And then the capstone project of the course was write your first chapter. So then go.

Kathy (20:55)
So what was that like? So you sit down, you’ve you’ve already been noodling your your character composite, you probably already have some plot line in mind, you already know some things about what life what you think and believe and have researched life at the college was like. You sit down to write your first chapter. Does it come easily or is it you’re struggling? What’s this like?

Janis Robinson Daly (21:18)
it it actually came pretty easily. Now the writing itself you know, needed extra editors and drafts and everything else, but but the gist of the idea was there and where it was going and the character arc I was building was all there. And I also kind of feel like in some ways historical

Janis Robinson Daly (21:46)
fiction authors maybe have it a little bit easier than just create because we have events to anchor the story and and move it along a timeline and think about how a character is going to react to that event, whether it’s the sinking of the Titanic or that’s the Spanish flu or it’s World War One. So and that was the time frame I was setting.

Janis Robinson Daly (22:14)
1897 to 1920 So a lot of history there. to anchor in and direct the story and and the relationships a little bit. Yeah.

Kathy (22:24)
So you turn in your chapter at the capstone and then so what kind of feedback did you get on the chapter? Do you remember?

Janis Robinson Daly (22:33)
I well it was it was an it it was an online class. So I I don’t I remember, you know, we got peer reviews and then we got comments. one of the lead professors and instructors must have been interested enough because she did invite me to come to her writing retreat, where I was then able going, you know, to develop the book. So so that was encouraging.

Janis Robinson Daly (23:01)
And I also had one of my brothers who was the English major reading for me as I would go along every few chapters I would send to him. And, you know, even though women’s historical fiction is is not his thing, you know, wrote his senior thesis on Hemingway. So yeah, not not the style, but he he was instrumental in in helping me g get down the mechanics better. And then

Janis Robinson Daly (23:30)
And then I sent it out to other beta readers to to help shape it a little bit more before I engaged with a professional editor.

Kathy (23:41)
So how does it go from being a strong manuscript to being a book out in the world?

Janis Robinson Daly (23:49)
so another year of my life

Kathy (23:52)
Ha ha.

Janis Robinson Daly (23:55)
checked off. you know, anybody writing a book, of course, has the dream that they’re going to get a huge contract with one of the big publishing houses and go on to best seller fame and Oprah or Reese is going to pick it for their book club and all that. Yeah. Well, the reality of that, chances are

Janis Robinson Daly (24:19)
so slim of of getting picked up in that manner because first you have to have an agent. You can’t even talk to the big five publishing houses without an agent. and I was doing all of this in the middle of a COVID shutdown. So trying to find an agent when you know so many people had just checked out of their career and their work. And so I did end up

Janis Robinson Daly (24:47)
After about nine months of living through that hell of finding a independent press, Black Rose Writing, who did not require an agent. They just took, you know, a query through their online submission portal. If they were interested in the query that you sent, of you know, here’s what my book is about. They asked for the full manuscript, and then six weeks later they came back and said, We want to send you a contract.

Janis Robinson Daly (25:18)
So I was

Kathy (25:18)
Amazing.

Janis Robinson Daly (25:18)
thrilled. Yeah.

Kathy (25:21)
So what’s going on in your professional life during all of this? Because what you’ve just described is right.

Janis Robinson Daly (25:28)
full time in

Janis Robinson Daly (25:29)
marketing and sales and I’m traveling for sales. My my territory was Maine to Pennsylvania to Michigan. And then we jumped and we picked up I always said my boss didn’t know go to geography class because then I picked up San Francisco up to Seattle. Yeah. So you know there would be many a few weeks throughout the year where I was flying to San Francisco for a one hour meeting.

Janis Robinson Daly (25:58)
Yeah.

Kathy (25:59)
So

Kathy (25:59)
are you are you are you writing the book on the plane on your six hour flight?

Janis Robinson Daly (26:03)
Yes.

Kathy (26:03)
Yeah. Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (26:04)
Yes. And and and reading or editing in the hotel room, you know, instead of putting on a movie or something. I’m I’m writing in the hotel room. Yeah.

Kathy (26:16)
So you are you’re all in in this hobby that’s turned into another hobby that’s turned into a big passion and then something that’s like, this is this is gonna come out in the world. I’m I’m creating something that’s gonna live and breathe in the world beyond my home.

Janis Robinson Daly (26:32)
Yes, yes.

Kathy (26:34)
And so I know at some point in time your professional life shifts. Where does

Janis Robinson Daly (26:41)
Yes.

Kathy (26:42)
that lie on this timeline?

Janis Robinson Daly (26:45)
so you know, I as I said, I I went to a a couple of different writer conferences or writer tr retreats to learn. And one I went to actually we were right on the heels three weeks before the world shut down with COVID. We were like outrunning it. I was down in Saint Augustine, Florida. But I but I met with a an editor and agent pitching the idea of the story. And

Janis Robinson Daly (27:14)
The original book was 1897 to 1947. And the best advice she gave me, Paula Mounier, she looked at me and said, and how long is your manuscript? I said, I did my research. Historical fiction needs to be 90 to 100,000 words. I’m around 93,000. and she goes, and you’re covering 50 years of incredible history?

Janis Robinson Daly (27:44)
First half of the 20th century, I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she’s like, yeah, no. She goes, You cannot do justice to that amount of history in a 350-page book. You have two choices. You can go back and you can fill in and write a 900-page book, which

Janis Robinson Daly (28:11)
By the way, is your name Ken Follett or Diana Gabaldon? No one’s gonna buy it from a first-time unknown author. They’re gonna w invest their money and time in reading a 900-page book. Go into your manuscript, find a stopping point that makes sense, and set your readers up for a sequel. I did that.

Janis Robinson Daly (28:37)
Brings me up to just about two years ago, right now, where I released The Path Beneath Her Feet, which takes my character now from 1937 to 1947. A little bit more compressed timeline. three weeks before that was coming out, I get a Zoom video call from my boss saying.

Janis Robinson Daly (29:06)
Corporate restructuring in your position has been eliminated.

Janis Robinson Daly (29:11)
Eighteen years with the same company.

Janis Robinson Daly (29:15)
Done. Sixty, two years old. I’m like just I’m still in shock, you know. Yeah.

Kathy (29:26)
Yeah, yeah. So si

Kathy (29:28)
s so at sixty two years old, you’ve your job’s been eliminated. Back up for me. When did when did the when did the whole thing the I’m gonna start researching my family start? The my boys are about to graduate.

Janis Robinson Daly (29:44)
So

Janis Robinson Daly (29:45)
so that that was two almost ten years ago. Yeah, so I I it

Kathy (29:50)
Okay. Ten years ago.

Janis Robinson Daly (29:51)
took me five years from start to research, writing, trying to get published, and then get on a publication date, 2020.

Kathy (30:00)
Yeah. So this is this

Kathy (30:02)
is a huge period of time, actually, right? Can can you

Janis Robinson Daly (30:04)
Yeah, yeah.

Kathy (30:05)
imagine thinking about, I’m just fooling around, I’m looking at some things, and it’s turned into now five, seven years and longer. And thinking all along, this is just in addition to my full-time job. This is

Janis Robinson Daly (30:20)
Yeah.

Kathy (30:20)
this is just on the side. And then suddenly, no, actually it’s all I have, right? In this current moment, it’s all it’s all I have now. And my and your second book is about to come out.

Kathy (30:30)
Is that right? Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (30:30)
Yes, yes.

Janis Robinson Daly (30:32)
Because I I wanted still the rest of the stories to be told. and and the second book goes into a lot more history of the American Women’s Hospital unit, which was amazing. So read the book to find out about that. but yeah, just just just blindsided and I was like, okay, well then let’s let’s just

Janis Robinson Daly (30:56)
Figure out what we’re doing next, including, you know, after getting the news on a Friday morning, Monday morning, I need health insurance.

Kathy (31:03)
Yeah.

Kathy (31:04)
yes. Yes. Right. yeah. The right. Of course, of course, right. So now you are, yeah,

Janis Robinson Daly (31:08)
And so does my husband, because I was carrying it for both of us.

Kathy (31:13)
I’m I’m I love this book and I love putting out this book and I love doing all this. And now suddenly all that has to go aside because we have to figure out what we are doing to survive this next undefined chapter.

Janis Robinson Daly (31:23)
Yeah. And and quite honestly,

Janis Robinson Daly (31:26)
the the the funding too. Because even though I was working with a small publisher, I in which I did not have to pay them anything, but as a small publisher, I needed to still invest in my own marketing. I needed to invest in the professional editor and proofreader and all. so yeah, though that kind of extra

Janis Robinson Daly (31:51)
sales commissions that I would allocate to to my hobby. Yeah.

Kathy (31:57)
Yeah.

Kathy (31:58)
Yeah. So and you just mentioned marketing, right? And you’d

Janis Robinson Daly (32:01)
Yeah.

Kathy (32:01)
have to market your own book. And I you know, I’ve I published my book almost ten years ago and I remember that that great joy of like, Great, my book’s done. Now what? Right? The only way it’s it’s one thing to put a book out in the world is another thing to get the book out in the world and and reach the readers and and find the people and and that takes

Kathy (32:22)
knowledge and skill and time and energy and sometimes money. And for a lot of people, they think the process of creating book, even if you get quite frankly, even if you get signed to one of those big five publishers,

Janis Robinson Daly (32:34)
Right. yeah.

Kathy (32:35)
you are still absolutely driving a lot of your own marketing. And I think a lot of people

Janis Robinson Daly (32:39)
Absolutely.

Kathy (32:39)
think about the idea of becoming an author and don’t necessarily have that in mind. So you find yourself in a situation of saying, okay, now, the money I’m

Kathy (32:51)
was expecting to put to this is not there, but I’ve got my own marketing skills and I’ve got

Janis Robinson Daly (32:54)
Yeah. Right.

Kathy (32:56)
my own experience. How are you now channeling that part of your life into this work?

Janis Robinson Daly (33:04)
Yeah, so so I I you know I had some I thought unique ideas of how I wanted to market my book. I From my background, I knew who my reader was. I knew my demographic well. And it was going to be people like me, more mature women, with maybe a little bit more time on their hands, who enjoy reading.

Janis Robinson Daly (33:29)
And have that passion for lifelong learning, which is what you get out of reading historical fiction, you know, reading and learning about history in ways that we had never heard about in all those textbooks years and years ago. So and being a a a professional and and and in sales, networking was always one of my biggest things, right? that’s how I met.

Janis Robinson Daly (33:56)
The woman that connected us, Mary Lou Andre, you know, networking. so I would I was perfectly fine in putting myself out there and I knew I wanted to engage with book clubs. I had been a member of a book club that I absolutely adored and I knew what my book club read and enjoyed. So I thought that’s gonna be one of my key audiences. Because if I can connect with one book club, I’ll connect with 15, 10 to 15 readers.

Janis Robinson Daly (34:25)
in one swoop. So I’m trying to think of ways to to market to book clubs. I’m very comfortable in public speaking from all my sales presentation work and all. So I’m happy to go out and talk live to people. So I started booking library events where I could talk to, you know, a larger audience about my genealogy research and my story, similar to what we’ve done here today.

Janis Robinson Daly (34:53)
And I’m also networking and meeting other authors. And I’m meeting other authors who, like me, may have been coming out with their first book but had no marketing background and were completely overwhelmed. What do I do? How do I do this? What are the strategies? How much is it going cost me? So I I first connected with an author that actually came to my personal book club.

Janis Robinson Daly (35:22)
as a guest from by our hostess and we were just chatting and she said, You’re doing what? And I said, yeah, I’ve booked like twelve library gigs. I’m gonna be talking about my book. She’s like, You’re doing what? And that’s really what got me started was her idea of like, can you do that for me?

Janis Robinson Daly (35:44)
Can you show me how to do that? Help me

Kathy (35:46)
Yeah, g

Janis Robinson Daly (35:48)
know how to approach the libraries, what to say, to get them to book me, and even a little bit more of what I should talk about. And so from there, I just started cultivating that idea, networking with a few more authors, going down that path. And at the same time, I’m building my followers.

Janis Robinson Daly (36:13)
And creating a subscriber list for my newsletter. And I knew it would be important to target more specifically. So I was able to go into my subscriber list, and anytime someone signed up, I asked them, by the way, are you in a book club? And if they said yes, I’m like, ding ding ding, I’m gonna mark it to them in a different special manner, and I can market.

Janis Robinson Daly (36:42)
For other authors to reach that audience, which is so elusive. You know, their emails aren’t out on Google, you know, Jane’s book club at, you know club.

Kathy (36:53)
No, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kathy (36:56)
Right. I mean, you’ll find libraries or town, you know, there are some public, you know, public book clubs, but that’s not most of them. And I think you’re right. I think

Janis Robinson Daly (37:00)
No. Sure. Right.

Kathy (37:04)
the it’s how you described how you described your target reader, the reader you know, very likely in a book club. You know, you know what comes to mind? They’re like,

Kathy (37:14)
They watch Call the Midwife. They they like historical fiction in any kind of format. You can also you could start to just completely picture who this person is. And so the idea that you had you know, the know-how and the gumption to start making making is making depths in there and other authors recognizing not only, ooh, you you’re you can do this, you d this is a thing that

Kathy (37:44)
Authors can do, but then saying, Can you help me? Right. So now this is an like a new stepping stone on this whole journey.

Janis Robinson Daly (37:50)
So now I’ve kind

Janis Robinson Daly (37:51)
of put together a marketing consultancy for authors, especially first timers, that don’t know how to navigate anything. So I’m happy to jump on a, you know, a free 30-minute introductory, you know, consultation session, find out where they are, where they need to be. And then if they want to hire me for additional services, awesome. And if not, that’s okay. At least I’ve paid it forward and I’ve helped somebody else.

Janis Robinson Daly (38:19)
in giving them some ideas of what some of their next steps could be. Yeah.

Kathy (38:25)
So this is again that kind of professional reinvention, the at sixty-two I lost my job. and really it it seems impossible to think about how does one start over as a viable candidate in the in the job market at that age. I I don’t you know, I don’t

Janis Robinson Daly (38:41)
Yeah, and

Janis Robinson Daly (38:41)
and and you know, I I certainly tried initially, but in my field that, you know, is is looking at and particularly marketing, you know, they’re they’re looking at the

Janis Robinson Daly (38:57)
younger ones who are more well versed in all of the, you know, the digital marketing and everything else. so and at at that point in my my career and my life, it’s like I’m not moving.

Kathy (39:11)
Yes.

Janis Robinson Daly (39:12)
And by and I had worked remote for well before COVID because I was traveling. So my boss was fine with me, you know, only coming into the office, you know, a a couple of days a month working from my home office. and and so I’m like, yeah, well try to try to find a job in my field at my age that will allow remote work from Cape Cod.

Kathy (39:40)
Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (39:40)
You know, the

Kathy (39:40)
yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (39:41)
the the the the pickings were slim to none. So

Kathy (39:45)
slim. Yes.

Janis Robinson Daly (39:47)
I actively tried. Unemployment makes you say that you you look for a job this week and I did. but it was yeah, really tough.

Kathy (39:58)
So so now you find yourself, I think you have a third book.

Janis Robinson Daly (40:02)
I have a third book, yes, that just came out in March. So, you know, with putting my my marketing hat back on when I launched the first book and knowing how much I’ve fallen in love with women’s history and women’s historical fiction, I put together a platform that would achieve a couple of different things. First, yes, I want to promote my book.

Janis Robinson Daly (40:33)
And I wanted to, you know, talk about the history of women doctors. and then so I’m thinking trying to think of that and how am I going to brand this program and what’s it going to look like? And again, a big believer in networking, I came up with the idea of March is women’s history month. Let’s lean into that.

Janis Robinson Daly (40:59)
Let’s capitalize on that and use it as a launching pad. And so I came up with here is a list of 31 books you can read for Women’s History Month. They’re all historical fiction. My book took up one slot on the calendar. And then I connected and contacted 30 other authors who had books that met my criteria. And I said, look, I’m doing this.

Janis Robinson Daly (41:29)
I’m gonna be putting it out there. I’m gonna promote it through my social media, through my newsletter. I’ll talk about it at my my different speaking engagements I’ve got in March. If you’d like to support the program, here’s some graphics you can use. Here’s the hashtag we’re using. and I would be forever grateful if you can help. first year I I maybe got 50%.

Janis Robinson Daly (41:58)
That that supported. Now I had a huge range of authors. I had the big bestsellers out there, but I also had a few self-published authors and other authors that are with smaller pressers like myself. but of course it was those ones that were super eager to participate

Kathy (42:19)
Mm-hmm.

Janis Robinson Daly (42:20)
because they were looking for new ideas and new ways to get out to their readers, and we all shared the same audience.

Janis Robinson Daly (42:28)
so that I launched in 2023 after my first book came out. And now it’s grown each year. I have a different set of 31 books every year. And

Kathy (42:41)
Wow

Janis Robinson Daly (42:42)
next year will be the fifth year of the program. And I’ve I’ve kind of evolved that so that now I do throughout March I do speaking events.

Janis Robinson Daly (42:54)
Whether it’s at a library, it’s an online Zoom with a national organization that’s sponsoring me, and I do a review of the 31 books.

Kathy (43:03)
So cool. I I and I I I love what you kind of just said around. Well well now we’re actually going at lots of different angles, right? So number one, I’m tapping into thirty different it may not be thirty different authors every year, but certainly thirty different books every Yeah. Right, like you. Yeah. Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (43:17)
No, it was thirty different auth not every year. Yeah. Some some authors have like Marie Benedict, Stephanie Dray Kate Quinn, they they each have

Janis Robinson Daly (43:26)
several books out that fit my criteria. Yeah.

Kathy (43:28)
So you’re reaching

Kathy (43:29)
a huge amount of authors where you’re just like, hey, do you mind if I drop this made for you marketing in your lap? All you gotta do is agree

Janis Robinson Daly (43:35)
No.

Kathy (43:35)
is say yes.

Kathy (43:36)
So then you’ve got the idea of it’s Women’s History Month, and lots of different organizations and angles are looking for content. How do I reach people with some good, good ideas, engaging ideas, virtual, in-person, everything? You’re like, I listen, I’m gonna talk about 31 books in women’s history. Do you want that? And I’m like, yes, sign me up. So you are now you’re kind of pleasing lots of different people. Forget about the the audience, right? You’re pleasing lots of different people with.

Kathy (44:06)
I would love to know more about this. I would love to be a part of this. I would love to promote this. And all from you having that knowledge and expertise of how do I market myself in a way that becomes so palatable, lots of people grab onto it.

Janis Robinson Daly (44:23)
Yeah, so it’s it’s been a fabulous program. I’ve connected with some incredible authors that we’ve, you know, developed a relationship that has allowed me to be comfortable enough to approach them and ask them, Kate Quinn, best selling author, would you be interested in reading my book and giving me a cover blurb? Yes, of course.

Kathy (44:48)
Wow.

Janis Robinson Daly (44:49)
Yes, send me your manuscript.

Janis Robinson Daly (44:52)
You know, I love

Kathy (44:52)
Wow.

Janis Robinson Daly (44:53)
what you’re doing with the women’s history. And by the way, I knew from my research, Kate Quinn started out as a classical voice major at Boston University. So there was an added angle of her being interested in my newest book, which is about an opera singer from Boston. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.

Kathy (45:12)
my gosh. perfect. What I

Kathy (45:17)
I just I love how, you know, in in a lot of ways this I think that this episode is shows kind of like what a page turner the last decade of your life has been. And I and knowing that one of one of the things I hear, especially in the last few years, is it’s it’s you continuing to find ways to reinvent, to reengage, to keep yourself

Kathy (45:41)
Marketable and relevant while also supporting something that you really love to do. And you were so

Janis Robinson Daly (45:45)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s

Kathy (45:47)
and you were so implored to get these stories out.

Janis Robinson Daly (45:50)
It was it was amazing. I mean, it’s certainly it you know, I don’t know if it’s an affliction or a passion, but yeah, I I am all in now. And and because also because, you know, two years ago at at 62, it’s like, I’m not done yet. I’m not having somebody tell me that my career is over. No way. I I got a lot of

Janis Robinson Daly (46:16)
years left in me doing something. So and as I said, you know, at the start of the show, I’ve I’m not someone that just sits sits back and is idle. I I have to be doing something every minute practically.

Kathy (46:33)
I want to switch to the quicksand three, which are the same questions I ask all of my guests. And then we’re going to come back and I want you to tell us how we could find our books, how we could have you as a speaker for our book clubs, how we can learn more about genealogy, whatever it is that you you kind of put out in the world. I want hear all of it. So the first question is what is a tip or technique that you use when you’re procrastinating or avoiding and you wanna kind of get yourself out of that and get going?

Janis Robinson Daly (47:03)
I walk. So, you know, I I don’t have a regular schedule of walking, but but I will just go out for a walk, yeah, wherever I might be at any given moment. So yeah, I do have the fortunate good luck to live on Cape Cod now. And you know, I remember being at a a writer’s block.

Janis Robinson Daly (47:31)
working on the first manuscript and just like you know getting feedback that you know the first chapter is good but you really need to to grab your reader in that first ten pages you know to make them keep going and I’m not sure that you’ve done that. You really need you know a a stronger pull

Janis Robinson Daly (47:56)
And so I was struggling with that. I was like, I don’t know what to do. I thought my opening was good. I don’t know. And I just kept putting off like even wanting to look at the manuscript because I I hadn’t figured it out. And then I I took myself on a walk one morning down to the beach and I can see exactly where I was making the slight turn, going up a little, not a mound, but a

Janis Robinson Daly (48:24)
See exactly where I haven’t taken a picture of it one day and put it up. and it was right there and I said, chapter nine needs to be chapter one.

Kathy (48:37)
That’s big shift.

Janis Robinson Daly (48:39)
And so luckily I turned around, I went home, opened up the Word doc, and cut and paste. I’m like, okay, let’s make this work. So walking. And and walking without the earbuds, walking without the phone,

Kathy (48:50)
that’s that’s so great. And I you know, and I’ve I’ve had good. Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (48:57)
just being in the moment and clearing your head.

Kathy (49:03)
Yeah. I I have a similar story about when I first when I was starting my organizing business and I I couldn’t, you know, think about name. I didn’t want Kathy Vines, you think of all that. And I was driving home from I remember exactly what I I was like in a craft fair up in New Hampshire, driving home and all of a sudden it hit me, clever girl organizing, and I’m on the highway and I pulled over on the highway into the

Janis Robinson Daly (49:27)
Yeah.

Kathy (49:27)
shoulder to write it down because I was confident I was gonna forget it.

Kathy (49:30)
And like quickly looked like, wait, does anybody else have this? Is this a website again? I’m like, I This is it. I’m done. I and I was so motivated. But I think it was also I like I was in that driving zone. You know that driving zone where suddenly you wake up and like, how did I get here? Have I been paying have I been paying attention this whole time to driving?

Janis Robinson Daly (49:42)
Mm. yeah. Like, how did I get there?

Kathy (49:50)
It was like one of those zones. And I so

Janis Robinson Daly (49:51)
Yeah.

Kathy (49:52)
I I feel that for sure. Great. So second question is if

Kathy (49:57)
Time and skills and money and time in history weren’t a factor. What’s a career or job you might have liked to have tried?

Janis Robinson Daly (50:06)
So, you know, I I as I said, I I have always loved reading. and you know, when I was raising, you know, the my my two kids and so busy, so active, you know, in a different sport every single season for two boys after work hours, you know, every weekend. you know, when life was crazy, you know, I I stopped and I said, you know, same thing.

Janis Robinson Daly (50:35)
When the when both of them had started on this craziness, both in element early el elementary school, I’m like, what am I doing for me? You know, it’s a self-care question that we don’t take time to always ask ourselves. And I said, you know, I do love to read. And I ha how was the last time I even picked up a book for myself, you know? And I saw in our little local community bulletin that the women’s group

Janis Robinson Daly (51:05)
Which I was not involved with, I didn’t have the time, was starting a book club. And I said, you know what? One night, once a month, for two hours, I am going to go to a book club and I’m gonna find the time to read over four weeks to read one book. And so, so you know.

Janis Robinson Daly (51:34)
It I’m still in that book club. Almost thirty years later. Yeah.

Kathy (51:36)
Wow Wow.

Janis Robinson Daly (51:39)
Yeah, you know, some some some of the women have come and gone, but the core group of us still there. And and I travel off Cape to go back to where they originated and everything.

Kathy (51:52)
Yeah, yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (51:53)
And and I loved it. So and so I had always thought, you know, when I got started with that and I enjoyed it so much, I’m like, wouldn’t it be cool if we had a place to meet? Yeah, it’s nice to meet at someone’s house, but wouldn’t it be a cool if we could

Janis Robinson Daly (52:09)
Could sit and have wine and cheese in like a bookstore, like a little cafe, okay, to keep us open more of the day. Maybe we serve coffee in the morning, and then by four o’clock, we’re changing the menu, and we’ve just got slot small apps, light apps, and a nice little wine selection, comfy couches where people can gather and and have their book.

Janis Robinson Daly (52:39)
And I just thought that would be so cool. I actually found one that if I ever did like fulfill this dream at this point in my life. But down in New Jersey on the Jersey Shore in Point Pleasant, there’s a little shop called the Little Point Bookstore. And it’s adorable. And it’s got it’s furnished the way I had imagined, you know, kind of the shabby chic.

Janis Robinson Daly (53:05)
you know, kind of vintage comfy couches and and side chairs and little tables and they have a a little meeting space area. They’ve got a little coffee bar in the back. I don’t know if they do wine, but yeah, that would be it.

Kathy (53:20)
I I I think you would have you would have an instant following. You you build something like that on the Cape and you you’d have no problem filling all that up. That’s awesome. Okay, so the third question is, and we’ve probably possibly already touched on this answer, but I still want to ask, is when life gets chaotic, how do you recharge or hit the reset button?

Janis Robinson Daly (53:41)
Yeah, so it it it it’s it is similar to what I said before. It’s it’s it’s unplug, unwind, turn it all off, just even if it’s for fifteen minutes, and and remove your removing yourself from from where you are in that moment. So whether it’s just stepping outside and sitting down on the chair on the patio, or or it it’s taking a walk.

Janis Robinson Daly (54:11)
or just sitting in your favorite chair and just closing your eyes and taking yourself to your favorite spot on the beach. and and just you know a a few cleansing breaths and and and trying to recenter and refocus.

Kathy (54:31)
Great. Good good advice always.

Janis Robinson Daly (54:33)
Yeah.

Kathy (54:34)
Thank you so much for walking us. This has been such a fun conversation. I I want to make sure people can learn more about you, your books, your speaking, what you speak about, women’s history, my w historical fiction month, all of that. Tell us what what we should know.

Janis Robinson Daly (54:50)
So so first all of my books are available on Amazon. ebook, paperback, audible, Kindle Unlimited if you’re a subscriber to Kindle Unlimited. also you can ask any bookstore or library to order it for you.

Janis Robinson Daly (55:09)
so it is available widely that way. so that that would be the first thing so that so that I’m getting those stories out there to more readers. I do have a monthly newsletter I put out. If folks can subscribe to that by just visiting my website, Janis J-A-N-I-S-R–

Janis Robinson Daly (55:28)
Daly, D-A-L-Y, and you’ll see the little subscribe to my newsletter. I put it out monthly, so I’m not spamming you with lots of trivial stuff, but lots of folks give me great feedback how much they love my newsletter because it’s not just all about me. You know, similar to my Women’s History Month program, I do book reviews, I give away books, and it’s not just my books, it’s other authors’ books.

Janis Robinson Daly (55:56)
and and then I for book clubs I have some tips and ideas of how to make your book club meeting a little bit more fun or here’s a great selection for your book club to consider. and then

Kathy (56:08)
Sounds great.

Janis Robinson Daly (56:08)
updates. So yeah, my my newsletter and then I’m I’m on Facebook, I’m on Instagram, don’t look for me anywhere else. And and those would be the the primary spots.

Kathy (56:19)
Great. And women’s your the th the the women’s history month, if people

Janis Robinson Daly (56:24)
Yes.

Kathy (56:25)
wanna make sure they’re tuned into that, watch me know.

Janis Robinson Daly (56:27)
Yeah. So so subscribe to my newsletter

Janis Robinson Daly (56:30)
before March.

Janis Robinson Daly (56:31)
So that you get the entire list. come to one of my events also on my website is a listing of where I’m speaking at any point in time. And I looked at this fall and I’m like, what have I done to myself? But it’s all good because I I love every minute of it. but I’m speaking on my new book, Under Two Flags, based on the real story of a Boston woman, Josephine Marzinski, who travels to Berlin to study opera during World War One.

Janis Robinson Daly (57:02)
so I have a few about that. I do speaking more generally and broadly about historical fiction and the popularity of the genre. I have a genealogy workshop now that I’m launching and I’m bringing it forward. I’m starting with some senior living communities, and we’re going to talk about my genealogy research, how you can do genealogy research yourself. I’ve got some interactive prompts that we’ll be doing during this session and workshop.

Janis Robinson Daly (57:29)
and and then ideas of of how to translate your research into a story. And it doesn’t have to be a book. but but so how so it can be passed forward, you know, because I never asked those questions to my parents before I lost them. So hopefully now my children and grandchildren have these stories. Yeah.

Kathy (57:52)
And that there isn’t

Kathy (57:53)
a ten year old boy saying, I don’t know, I don’t know anything about her. She was an old lady, right? We wanna

Janis Robinson Daly (57:55)
Yeah. Exactly.

Kathy (57:57)
get we wanna get the stories out so that the family knows what you thought was important. I love that angle. my gosh. Yeah.

Janis Robinson Daly (58:01)
Yeah. Because you never know what you’re gonna find. You

Janis Robinson Daly (58:05)
never know what you’re gonna find and and who you might be related to. You may not like everything you find. But it’s interesting.

Kathy (58:11)
Absolutely. Absolutely. There are plenty of people who do research

Kathy (58:14)
and say, you were not on the side of that story I was hoping you were going to be in. Yes, good.

Janis Robinson Daly (58:17)
Yeah. Exactly.

Kathy (58:19)
Janis, thank you so much. I’ve loved talking to you. I this is This is really great. I’m going put all those links into the show notes and people can learn more

Janis Robinson Daly (58:25)
Thank you.

Kathy (58:26)
about all of that and either check you out in real life or virtually sometime soon.

Janis Robinson Daly (58:32)
Great. Thank you so much, Kathy. It was wonderful to chat with you.

Kathy (58:36)
I’m confident I have some historical fiction readers who are out there in surfing the quicksand world and especially women history. And so I hope you’re very intrigued by the idea of going to check out Janice’s books. But more importantly, like what a great story about somebody carving out time for themselves. And what do I find interesting? And gosh, I’m gonna be an empty nester. I’m gonna have more time.

Kathy (59:01)
I’m gonna have another place to put my attention. How do I go about filling that with something really meaningful? Now obviously hers blew up into something she never imagined, but I really do think that the idea of sitting with what is right for me now after I’ve been serving everyone else, what’s right for me is an important question so many of us need to answer. I hope this episode got you thinking about it, if you’re not at that spot yet, of will my future hold? And

Kathy (59:31)
How can I be just as excited and passionate about where it might take me as Janis Daly is? Thanks for being here.